Dr Rudy Eberwein and Dave Lee discuss the clinical applications of psychedelics.
What are the clinical applications of psychedelics, why are they used and what do they achieve?
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So what are the clinical applications of Psychedelics why are they used them what Do they achieve they've That's a great question Um There are different as I said before There's there's different tools for Different different uh different Contexts with the different people Um I guess one that I'd like to talk about That I guess could be probably more Suitable for more people plus it just Became legalized in Australia so I can Talk about it a bit more freely uh is MDMA assistant therapy Um and this would be a very different Therapeutic option as opposed to Something like Ayahuasca psilocybin mushrooms DMT for Example as this would be more of a Healing modality that would be more Gentle and it would be assisted by a Therapist so this isn't the idea of just Going out and taking a bunch of MDMA and Partying and calling it therapy Um this is basically going into a Situation where you're with a trained Practitioner who can guide you through a Therapy session while you are under the Influence of a therapeutic dose of MDMA And then the question is why why would This be therapeutic what would be the Point of this and the idea I think when
You look at it from a more top-down Approach is going that You're allowing someone to or you're Encouraging someone to look within in Terms of what their traumas are or what Their maybe negative behaviors are or Maladaptive coping mechanisms are And you're allowing them to approach That and see that from a place of Self-love not judgment and I think that If if people are able to do that in Terms of reflect on what they've been Through or where they are now in terms Of not being where they want to be I Think if you can approach that and Interact with that from a place of Self-love not a place of judgment you're More likely to have a more encouraging And more healing and more supportive Interaction with yourself in that Context And I think that this is where something Like looking at talk therapy for example Is that a lot of men don't respond well To talk therapy Um much fewer men respond well to dog Therapy than females we just don't and I Think that the advantage of looking at Psychedelics from a clinical practice is That you're now applying experiential Therapy So different medicines will be more Suitable for different things Um and but I think that form a lot of
People who are approaching psychedelics It can be based around healing or Integrating traumas and I think that Doing something like this or looking at Something like this again I'm not Telling anyone to go out and take Psychedelics and do this but if this is A path that you feel guided to doing This is advantageous because you're also Going to be guaranteed to be in this in The safety and under the care of a Practitioner which I think is very Important when it comes to all Psychedelics it's like a like a Spider-Man like great power great Responsibility thing Um high risk High reward and I think the Most important thing is to be doing it In a supervising controlled fashion One thing like you said the first thing We want to say is this really we will Not advocating for people to go and do Something that's not illegal in Australia right now MDMA and silos cybin Have been approved to be used with Um Psychotherapy assistant Um so crop therapy with with the the Psychedelics in the U.S so far it's only Ketamine that's been FDA approved to be Used for treatment resistant depression PTSD and other causes the the MDMA and Psilocybin are very close to BMW input In the US so we'll just monitoring it For now and second uh for me you know
That Dave we've talked about this you Know will Geeks we're newer scientists We we like to understand and what made Me understand this really quick is when You talk about those neurons that that Set of neurons called the default mode Network the the default mode Network it Is the spot of the brain it's not an Anatomical part of the brain but it's a Set of neurons that fire together and Really make the story of who we are it's Almost our ego you know like everything You've heard the story of who you are Your limitations uh most of your Thoughts go from that default mode Network so we wake up in the morning and Automatically our mind goes into the Same thing so what psychedelics have Been shown to do and they've done Functional MRIs to show that that they Can disrupt the default mode Network so For me my brain the way I understood it It's almost like there's a short circuit And then you come and you interrupt that Short circuit and now the brain Plasticity you can have connections of Different parts of the brain that now Opens you up to a completely new way of Thinking that's how you can reframe Different parts of your the story you Said about yourself what has happened to You now you can reframe them from a Different position most people after They do a psychedelic experience no
Matter what the culture there's a lot of Common themes that always come back the Number one thing it's always Clarity uh Every time I do ketamine with my Patients that's the first thing like oh My God it's so clear I know what to do Now number two is intensity and most People rated as the one of the most Important things they've done after Maybe the child of the birth of their Their children and number three to me That's the most important is that Oneness that that that feeling that you Are one with the universe actually They've done study that's called the Mystical experience when you are lucky Enough that you do a a psychedelic Experience and you experience that Sensation of unity that sensation of Oneness this is what every book every Religion is talking about and they've Done a study people who actually have That sensation of Oneness actually that Is the most healing Um of determinant people who have this The antidepressant effect tends to be Much more lasting we can't explain it It's even hard to put it into words but When you actually experience it it is Deeply healing Yeah Absolutely Yeah yeah absolutely that that was a Phenomenal uh explanation of the default
Mode Network and Understanding the importance of Disrupting that for creating the Experience of psychedelics was something That I didn't learn until a bit later Which was when I was learning about a Molecule that we've discussed before Called bufo and um the thing that I love About what we're looking at here in Terms of this disruption of the default Mode network is what I was talking about Before which is experiential learning And I think I think I I use this analogy When we had a chat the other day where I Said that if you if you walk out and get Hit by a bus you're going to learn a lot Of things from that experience now You're going to learn to look both ways Before you cross the street and getting Hit by a bus hurts but the most Important things that you're going to Learn from having a near-death Experience is the fragility of human Life the importance of you know telling The people that you care that you love Them Um the importance of you know slowing Down taking time all the things that you Would learn from that you didn't Necessarily learn from the impact at High Velocity you learned from the Experience that you went through and I Think that's the amazing thing about What you're talking about here with well
What's the point of disrupting the Default mode Network it was just going To kick back on when the when the Psychedelic is over and it's that you Had the experience of disrupting it and I think that's the really powerful thing When we talk about this idea of Intention when psychedelics is going Okay we're going to take a little bit of You offline and then now you're going to Be be able to influence this a little Bit more in terms of changing the way That you're thinking or working on a Part of you that maybe you're not too Happy with and I I like to relate humans To cars a lot and I I would in this Analogy use the movie cars with the cars Alive the characters And I think what we're looking at here To bring it back to the trt thing is That when we look at what really was Talking about before with this idea of That you know we are basically Experiencing life through our bodies if If our hormones are out of whack or if We've got you know systemic inflammatory Problems or all these different things It's going to feel very different to be That car and when our Consciousness is Inhabiting our body we're getting this Constant feedback which is why there's a Psychological symptoms from having low Testosterone so if we can fix all that Up that's great we can fix all the car
Up but we haven't made you a better Driver by giving you a better car so now When we're looking at looking at these Psychedelic therapies which I think you Can also use mindfulness meditation to Get there in a way that's a bit slower And more controlled and I think that's Something that should always tie into Psychedelic use is that now we can also Look at not just fixing the car but also Making you a better driver of the car And I think one of the most important Things about being a good driver is Being aware of yourself and also being Aware of the drivers around you and when You have this experience of shutting Down this default mode Network what kind Of gets replaced with the part of you That is your Consciousness is the Connection to everyone and everything Else and I think that if you can have That experience of being connected to Everyone and everything else it's going To change the way that you show up it's Going to change the way that you Interact with other people it's going to Change the importance of things like Empathy Um and I think that that's one of the Most amazing things you can give to a Man in combination with fixing his Testosterone exactly so so to me and and That was the always the important thing Because pistachio and therapy thyroid
Therapy fixing nutrition uh decreasing Inflammation it can make you into a Badass no question but how do you become Grounded vulnerable compassionate with Empathy while still being a badass and You can do all those things this is to Me you know life is always like this That balance of the yin and the yin so Being able to have a little of this and A little of that too much of one is not Is not good you know I've told you that On some of my patients when they come to Me they've been broken by lotus session For all this time they identify as this New person you fix the attestation and Then now they turn into what I call CA Confident Ales I'm like that wasn't the Goal of our model optimization we want To make you into a better man now that You got this power you got back your Power you got back your energy do Something positive with it and the Synergy of pistachio and psychedelics And when we say psychedelics I like that You said that it's not the only way to Get this You can do it with meditation with Breath work you can do it others I I've Tried I was never able to get myself Where I wanted to for me the use of Psychedelics with combination of of Hormone optimization has been really my Optimum and that's what I bring to a lot Of my patients not all of my not many of
My patients do do psychedelic therapy They can do it by other ways there are People who get that by prayers by Whatever means necessary but it's Finding that awesome masculine power and You balance it with that groundedness That sacredness that vulnerability That's what makes you the best version Of yourself